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.hack//20th Anniversary Book -Interview- Translation
(P.132-135)
Special Interview Project #3
Listen to President Matsuyama
The most powerful duo, also rumored to be in love: “.hack” producers Uchiyama x Matsuyama
Uchiyama-san and Matsuyama-san have worked together since the launch of the .hack series. We will unravel the mystery of their close relationship.
—-xxxx—-
Daisuke Uchiyama
Representative Director of Bandai Namco Studios, Inc. As a producer for Bandai Namco Games (now Bandai Namco Entertainment), he worked with President Matsuyama to launch the .hack series. He has also worked on a succession of popular titles, including NARUTO: ULTIMATE NINJA Series.
INTRODUCTION: ENCOUNTER
Matsuyama: Do you remember when we first met?
Uchiyama: I guess it was the year 1999 when the Tokyo Game Show was held twice a year, once in spring and once in autumn. Do you know that the Tokyo Game Show was held twice a year? It’s scary! (Laughs)
Matsuyama: Yes, that’s right. As soon as spring was over, I was ready for fall!
Uchiyama: I think it was around that time, but I was working on a game of Fengshen Yenyi and I was cosplaying as Taigong Wang in a Bandai booth. As a producer, I had to do everything. Wasn’t that the first time we met?
Matsuyama: That’s right. It was the Tokyo Game Show in the fall of 1999, just before the release of Silent Bomber. I looked at the show and thought, “There’s an unmotivated Taigong in here.”
Uchiyama: No, no, no. Taigong was that kind of character (laugh). It’s not that I was tired from all the preparations.
Matsuyama: He was introduced at the Tokyo Game Show in the spring of 2000. I was summoned to Bandai’s dressing room by Unozawa-san, then head of the company’s game division, and told, “You’re in charge of the next project release!”, I said, I was thinking, “Wow! That unmotivated Taigong is here!”
Uchiyama: I thought, “There is a salesman with a strange tie.”
Both: (Laughs)
CHAPTER 1: Sudden Reunion with a [*BEEP*]
Matsuyama: Tail Concerto, Silent Bomber, and .hack have all been on the market for about a year and a half, and in every title, there have been at least two changes in who’s in charge at Namco Bandai Games. After one production, they finally get used to each other and say, “We’ll do it better next time.” And what’s next? Like, “Oh, my God, next time I’m in charge!”
Uchiyama: You son of a… (Laughs)
Matsuyama: Nowadays, Uchiyama-san is the president of Bandai Namco Studio, but when he worked at the Higashi-Nakano building, he was a cocky-looking older brother with brown hair, a cap, a T-shirt, and short pants.
Uchiyama: We were not allowed to enter the head office, so we had to go to Higashi-Nakano to do our own thing.
Matsuyama: By the way, there was a sign inside the company that said, “Don’t wear such an outfit”, but I was wearing the same outfit!
Uchiyama: You know, I was young at the time (laughs). Unozawa-san also believed that the quality of the game would not be affected by one’s clothes.
Matsuyama: That’s how Treasure Hacker, the predecessor to .hack, got started. I would come to the office from Hakata (*in Fukuoka) every other week or so and explain to Uchiyama-san again, “I’m currently working on this project with my predecessor.”
Uchiyama: Yeah, yeah (laughs).
Matsuyama: “Let’s see. The title of the game is impossible. The fact that it is set in an online game is too complicated. I have no idea what we’re trying to do. So, we’re going to have to redo the whole thing, so we’re going to take a shot at it.“
Uchiyama: What? Did I say that? I said that!
Matsuyama: Yes! It’s all you! I was surprised to hear the word [*BEEP*] come up in the meeting (laughs).
Uchiyama: Well, it was those days. But I think I said it a lot after that!
Matsuyama: I’ve been told that many times!
Both: Woo hoo hoo ~~~.
Matsuyama: In Tail Concerto and Silent Bomber, we had a Producer from an older project with a certain amount of experience, but this time, he was a dapper guy the first time we met, and the next time, he was in T-shirts and shorts for a meeting. He was cocky to look at, but I knew I could get into a proper fight with him.
Uchiyama: You thought so!
Matsuyama: Because we had opposite ideas, we were able to produce the game while discussing our opinions and building a mutual understanding. After the discussion, the unnecessary things were eliminated from .hack, and the sharp edges were sharp and balanced.
Uchiyama: Maybe so. The game also clearly shows the strange chemistry between the two. It was nice to be able to say whatever we wanted without worrying about the client/developer relationship.
Matsuyama: This was my first experience with CyberConnect2. Until then, I had always received compliments on everything I made, and now, on my third project, I’m getting this much praise! What?
Uchiyama: Oh, I see… (laughs).
CHAPTER 2: Naming Difficulties
Matsuyama: But now that I think about it, I’m glad we didn’t title it “Treasure Hacker.”
Uchiyama: It was a close call. We really couldn’t come up with a name for the title, so we decided to apply for trademark registration of “Treasure Hacker (tentative)” for the time being.
Matsuyama: Yes, that’s right. So when we were thinking about the title .hack, we had a lot of ideas on the planning room whiteboard, and we finally decided to use a title that people would not know how to read. That way, when people see the title, they will be interested and ask, “How do you read this title?” This would allow us to start sales talks explaining the game to them. I’m not sure how they came up with the .hack title, but it was a good idea.
Uchiyama: Indeed.
Matsuyama: That wasn’t the only problem with the .hack name. When we started expanding overseas, the .hack logo had a hexagonal dot in it, but English speakers did not recognize it as a dot. “The hexagon is a hexagon,” he said. They asked me to put “DOT” inside the hexagon, and as a result, the logo was different from the Japanese version.
Uchiyama: Since this was an original work, we had to come up with the character names and titles from scratch, so we focused on the need to create a noisy name that would leave some kind of memory when it reaches the customer’s hands. I remember we never had a title like “Something Crow”.
CHAPTER 3: Weekly Relationship
Matsuyama: Ah, that’s Moon Crow. It was an action game starring a thief dressed in a crow-like costume. However, there were only 18 employees at the time, so we did not have enough manpower to create an action game.
Uchiyama: Yes, CyberConnect2’s office was amazing back then. We didn’t have an OA floor (*1).
Matsuyama: Just like in the TV anime AKIRA, there were cords exposed all over the floor.
Uchiyama: I used to go to such places every week.
Matsuyama: The funny thing was that they would come in and say, “I’m coming for a meeting,” but then they would try to leave on a day trip without even making a reservation at an inn. So they start the meeting by saying, “I can’t go home until it is decided,” and as expected, the meeting doesn’t end even after half a day and they end up staying in Hakata.
Uchiyama: While looking at the timetable of the next day’s flight, he said, “Oh, no… another delay today.” I still remember that we went back to the hotel in front of the station for 4,000 yen per room.
Matsuyama: Now that the building has been reconstructed and is now an 8,000 yen per night hotel.
Uchiyama: No, I don’t believe that. The place where that hotel used to be is not such a place. There were pink flyers posted all over the place by the guardrail.
CHAPTER 4: And then, a Passionate love affair is discovered
Matsuyama: Do you remember when we were having a game planning meeting with Uchiyama-san and Kazunori Ito-san on-site at the time, and Unozawa-san suddenly came in and asked us, “What was the best-selling movie when the PlayStation 2 was released? Do you remember this question?“
Uchiyama: Oh, the Matrix movie?
Matsuyama: That’s right. Do you remember Unozawa-san’s suggestion that .hack should be a two-disc set of games and anime since many people have learned to watch movies and animation on game consoles?
Uchiyama: Suddenly, there was talk about doing .hack as a game and intertwining it with some kind of animation. He said, “Your Highness is disturbed.” I was shouting in my mind, “Be with each other, you two!”
Matsuyama: So we were working on a two-disc set, game, and animation, when suddenly Mr. Unozawa came into the room one day and said, “To sell for a long time, I think you have to do promotions over a long period of time.” You are currently working on an RPG that will take about 80 hours to play. “Let’s sell it as four consecutive titles.”
Uchiyama: “Lord is disturbed again.”
Matsuyama: In the end, it became a four-part series. Of course, the OVA (.hack//Liminality) was also changed to a four-part series. I thought it was absurd at the time. So we were discussing and making adjustments with Mr. Ito who was producing the scenario, and then Unozawa-san came in again and said, “We have already decided on the TV Anime.”
Uchiyama: (laughs).
Matsuyama: Of course, the animation studio would do the TV Anime, but we had to be in charge of generating stories, etc. We had a crazy schedule of working on the anime while making the game. The same was true for the manga and novels as well. Unozawa-san was involved, and we just did what we could do.
Uchiyama: Unozawa-san gave us a great opportunity at that time. So, to live up to the expectations, I worked with Hiroshi and Kazunori Ito, Michiko Yokote and Reiko Yorizumi, and although each piece was fun and complete on its own, in the end, it made me want to play games. That’s why the idea that we were dating surfaced on the Internet boards at the time since we were always together so much.
Matsuyama: (laughs). Because we were always together.
CHAPTER 5: No Communication
Uchiyama: In those days, we had to do everything ourselves. We had to do things that producers do not do now, such as editing materials for commercials, explaining to SCE (2) how to make a business out of a double-disc game and an animation, and coordinating with TV stations for animated TV programs.
Matsuyama: That’s true. There was no game software that we made with so many people involved in meetings. The insights we gained there were invaluable. Thanks to you, we have become such a great company.
Uchiyama: I also became such a great adult (hehe).
Matsuyama: No. But everyone who knew Uchiyama-san at that time is unanimous in saying that he is now the president of a company from such a young man. How did he become president? It’s a dream come true. It’s just like in the world of Salaryman Kintaro.
Uchiyama: Well. I don’t think I am as violent as in that cartoon. When I was a producer of .hack, I was working on 12 other titles at the same time. Because I was always on the road, I was notorious for being out of the office and out of touch. Rumors spread among clients that the phone lines were open after 2 a.m., and I would answer calls made while I was in a drunken stupor. I was in a panic and saying, “Oh, no!”
Matsuyama: He wasn’t at the company and I couldn’t reach him. He was a total misanthrope.
Uchiyama: Sitting at my desk at work was not helping me in any way. I thought it was important to connect the information I gathered by traveling around the company and make it work.
Matsuyama: I’m talking about the development of .hack, but in fact, there were several times as many stories that couldn’t be decided. That’s why we had to go back and forth, and if we didn’t, we had to continue the story.
CHAPTER 6: Sudden Farewell
Uchiyama: At the time, we didn’t want to use the term “Multimedia” and used the term “Cross-media,” but we could see the success of this business model as early as May 2002, one month before the game was released.
Matsuyama: That’s right. The TV Anime started in April, and from that point on, orders increased dramatically.
Uchiyama: “The players are dancing on our hands.” It was like that.
Matsuyama: After Vol.2 (Reminisce) and Vol.3 (Redemption) were released, we held a fan appreciation event with voice actors and others.
Uchiyama: I felt that the audience recognized the quality of my work, and I decided to expand it even further.
Matsuyama: Well, it was around the same time that our company changed from “CyberConnect” to “CyberConnect2” while we were working on .hack. So, at the meeting, I said, “Actually, I have an announcement to make.” Unozawa-san said, “I knew you would do it someday.” I countered, “No, there was no such thing as an assassination!”
Uchiyama: They must have thought, “He must have staged a coup d’etat.”
Matsuyama: (laughs). But as soon as I started by saying, “We will have to re-execute all the contracts under the company name change,” both Unozawa-san and Uchiyama-san became furious, saying, “What a pain in the ass you guys are!” They were furious with us.
Uchiyama: Because I hated that kind of paperwork.
Matsuyama: Since that time, we have divided our internal structure into two teams: one to create original RPGs and the other to produce game software utilizing IP from Weekly Shonen Jump titles. When we created the first NARUTO game series, NARUTO: ULTIMATE NINJA, Uchiyama-san was the producer. Thanks to Uchiyama-san’s efforts, the game sold well, and he was so successful that he became our producer. He was suddenly told that the producer in charge would be changing, and a younger producer took over. It was a great opportunity for me. I had been making things easy for them, but they would start up a project, take it over, and then move on. Well, as a result, both of these works have lasted over 20 years, which I think is great.
Uchiyama: When we met at the Tokyo Game Show in cosplay, you thought, “Something is different about this guy,” didn’t you? He turns out to be just as he said.
Matsuyama: By the way, what do you think about .hack after it leaves your hands?
Uchiyama: I don’t think I should mention it. I try to keep a warm hand on it after I leave because if I say something, it can take on an unintended meaning and be overheard by the next person in charge.
Matsuyama: Hey, did you hear what he just said? That’s an unbelievable comment from someone who used to say “*BEEP*” in the meeting room when someone brought in a proposal. People can change so much, can’t they?
Epilogue: The Time has Passed since then…
Matsuyama: Let’s end with a message to the fans of the .hack series.
Uchiyama: I feel that the passion that the first series .hack had was very special, and the reason why the fans of the first series have supported us for 20 years is that we worked together with them at that time. Although the original scenario existed, we changed it based on the reaction of the fans. For example, characters such as Silver Knight and Sora had a unique live-action feel to them. I think that fans from back then still remember that experience very fondly. For those who started with .hack//G.U. and .hack//Link, I think they will enjoy the unique worldview of the .hack series, which will eventually lead them to become interested in the games as they enjoy the various titles. I believe that this is also something we have created. We believe that this is not something we have created, but rather an atmosphere that has been created by the fans. So I hope that we can continue to create it together with everyone. I hope that you will continue to work together with us in the future. This answer gets a perfect score of 100!
Matsuyama: Really, is there any other comment as beautiful as this one (laughs)? The editors have instructed me to “give Matsuyama a word at the end,” so let’s end with a “Ching-dee☆”.
Uchiyama: (laughs). Well, I think we will continue to be together until we die. So, I hope you will live a long life and avoid traffic accidents as much as possible.
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